Israel destroys bridges and a power station in Gaza in an effort to get their soldier back. Prime Minister Olmert said that Israel is ready to take extreme steps (I love that destroying bridges and cutting off power is not seen as extreme) to get their guy.
America should take a good look at Israeli actions and learn that the kid gloves treatment will never work. The terrorists in Iraq know we won’t scorch the earth to recover kidnapped Americans, lest we get an earful from the ‘international community’. Israel plain doesn’t care. I want to be more like them.
Posted by Karol at
Shalit Israel Iraq Gaza
Ha! I thought the same thing. What the hell was that missing reporter for a
month crap? Just go door to door with a tank, knocking one house down at a time…I suspect they would have found her with the quickness.
I don’t know much about Israel, but my guess is that they can do stuff like this because they don’t have liberals that root for them to lose, so they can fight without kid gloves. I think they have a novel approach there of rooting against the enemy.
I have been to Israel and let me tell you, national survival takes precedence over political correctness.
With that in mind, if there were oil fields in the Gaza Strip, the international community may have advised against a “scorched-Earth” type of policy.
“I want to be more like them.”
You are like them. No one crosses Karol and gets away with it.
While there is much to admire about Israel, I don’t want to be like them at all, namely sucking on the teet of the taxpayers of another nation. As I have said many times without the Stars and Stripes, the Star of David would be setting from the sky of nations. That may be news to Podheretz and Peretz and Pollard but it is no news to patriots. America stands on its own two feet. I simply can not say that about Israel as much as I wish them well.
And for what it is worth, when America has launched get tough to save hostages campaigns, we have seen helicopters crash from Desert One in 1980 to the Mayaquez rescue operations that Ford ordered. I suspect those were reasons that the Reagan administration chose to barter as oppose to use force. I hope Israel’s efforts prove better than President Carter’s or President Ford’s.
Ha! I thought the same thing.
As everyone knows, when Dawn and I agree there has been some kind of break in the time/space continuam. Run for your lives.
Hahaha, Jake, that is true. But, I want it to be ‘nobody crosses America and gets away with it.’
Von Bek, we get it, America #1. And I agree. But you can’t deny that Israel does some serious ass-kicking while we just threaten serious ass-kicking. The war in Iraq is being fought so gingerly that it gives strength to our enemies and hope to those that hate us. You just can’t say the same for Israel.
I think Israel can kick ass and looks like they are doing it here. But I disagree with your post. Israel can often fold to international pressure and I suspect the main reason is that they rely on international money to survive, namely ours.
I agree the war in Iraq is being fought too gingerly as well. I think more troops were needed up front and that expectations were raised too high too soon, including by the current administration (mission accomplished, death throes, etc), neocons (cakewalk, they’ll be naming streets after Bush), talking heads (how many turning points can you name?) and by the American people (this was not the same type of war as Gulf I or the Bosnian operations). This has become Vietnam with the war being lost at home and, yes, I think we may have reached the tipping point even if there were nowhere as many casualties as Vietnam.
I’m pretty sure, these days, when our soldiers go missing, we do scorch quite a bit of earth (or get someone else to do it). Remember, just because it’s not in the papers doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
When a reporter goes missing? Eh. Not the same thing. Not by a long shot.
We don’t need more troop at the beginning of the Iraq war, we needed to allow our troops to kill more people. Where aren’t the sunni kissing our soldiers’ feet for letting them and their families the prevelege of living?
We don’t need more troop at the beginning of the Iraq war, we needed to allow our troops to kill more people.
I’m sorry but there it is. How could Abu Ghraib, a situation where NO ONE DIED, be considered such a huge deal? What kind of war are we fighting, exactly?
Because Americans are generally a moral people who often suffer from “we don’t do that”. It’s one of our great stregnths as a nation but it can be often be one of our great flaws.
With very few exceptions, the atomic bombs, Dresden and the Overland campaign of 1864 come to mind, Americans generally have never been able to close our eyes and accept the nightmare of war.
It’s hurt us before (Vietnam) but it also helps us (like giving oodles of cash to the countries we beat in the late 40s).
Americans are a confused and divided against ourselves people. Yes, we are moral also. But the “we don’t do that” which you describe isn’t an example of our morality. When we are truly a moral people is when we are the shining beacon of freedom willing to go Jacksonian when called for.
It is not any more moral to wage a limited war that fails to achieve absolute victory (an honest American shortcoming far too often) than it is to wage a capricious war driven by exploitation (what America is usually and dishonestly accused of). The only moral way of war is to go all out to achieve total victory in pursuit of well considered and virtuous goals.
We are all perfectly free to argue over whether the national self-interest and security of a nation more dedicated to the advance of personal and economic freedom than any other nation that has ever existed are well considered and virtuous goals. But if we as a nation are going to engage in wars driven by those ideals we damn well better do everything it takes to win.
J.Kende, I’m a bit confused. Would you mind defining Jacksonian here?
Not remotely inclined for once to attack Israel’s actions on moral or legal grounds. Kidnapping a child (19 years old may as well be child) is not the way to get under 18 children released from Israeli jails and sadly brings to the fore groups who aren’t interested in peace and who just want to kill.
I am not sure that Israel’s actions today are a good idea. Don’t question their justification in this case but its a sure fire way to make the populace fight back. The suggestion made earlier that the US should adopt a policy in similar situations of using tanks to bulldoze one house after another until the hostage is found is a bad one. The insurgency in Iraq is bad enough without the sight of American troops bulldozing houses with tanks, and the press coverage in the arab world that would accompany it.
Hope they find the 2 hostages (BBC News mentioned a 62 year old has been taken as well.) and there isn’t too much damage done to the peace process.
“But you can’t deny that Israel does some serious ass-kicking while we just threaten serious ass-kicking”
Karol, I’m sure the families of the 38 THOUSAND DEAD IRAQIS (and that’s the conservative estimate btw) would beg to disagree. Please don’t now say something like “Well that’s only 12 or so thousand a year”.
This sounds great.
We should simply go into each village and town and tell the inhabitants that every time an American is killed then we will kill 15 of you (Iraqi’s), that’s the only way to keep the French underground – oops, I mean Iraqi’s from harming Nazi’s – oh Christ I mean Americans. Yes slaughter is great, praise the lord for this war, it’s just what America needed.
But you can’t deny that Israel does some serious ass-kicking while we just threaten serious ass-kicking
Let’s not get carried away, K. We beat the Japanese AND the Germans when Israel was but a twinkle in the U.N.’s eye.
Not to mention John Wayne is American. And no one kicked more ass than John Wayne…except for maybe Charles Bronson. But he’s American too.
Also, I don’t think Anh was being sarcastic. I think Anh was on your side. Until you YELLED at him.
Just some comments based on real-life experiences. Please don’t feel offended, it is not my intention. War is hell, combat really sucks and real people die really awful deaths. Is war necessary in this day and age? Heck yeah, and here’s why: there will always be mean people who like to be mean to others and then when they graduate to dictatorships of nation-states, they are mean to other nations and/or other peoples. These types of mean people sometimes(most of the time, really) really DO understand the concept of negotiations, but they choose to ignore signed agreements and demand more. They see negotiations as OUR weakness, REALLY. War IS an extension of any nation’s national policy and it must be an all-out affair. Not half-ass, not with kiddie gloves, not concerned with other people’s sensibilities. In other words, ladies and gentlemen, at the end of the day, Israel is a Nation State with a Democratic-elected government, and while not “perfect” in the “european” kind of way(honestly, europe just cannot project her power no longer, we can see it already, just like the russians)Israel IS one of the most stable nation-states in the region. Many will critique every move Israel makes in 20/20 hindsight, but at the end of the day would you rather live in Israel or Syria? or Iran? or Lebanon? or Saudi Arabia? IF the arab/muslim states/people don’t want Israel to kick their ass so often, then what must they do? Easy, they must behave just like regular people/nations. It is in their power to stop their suffering. Israel should continue their offensive till the threat is no longer. It really is that simple. Nothing else matters. Don’t whine about the innocents who are dying, be angry at the terrorists and the nations that support them, and do something about them. this is the ROOT. Don’t get lost in the elite intellectual crap and all that right-wing shit, just do what must be done, the right way first.