Alarming News

March 29, 2005

The trouble with Europe

We don’t hate Jews….we just don’t want to be anywhere near them.

Posted by Karol at 02:51 PM |
Comments

The best you can come up with is a link to several ISRAELI blogs having a go at Fabian Barthez. Fabian Barthez levels legitimate and justified (if somewhat onesided) charges against IDF and suddenly every European is an anti-semite.
You really must be scraping the barrell of anti-europeanism today.

Posted by: Nick Saunders at March 29, 2005 at 4:58 pm

Deliberately disingenuous as well.

Posted by: Nick Saunders at March 29, 2005 at 4:59 pm

If the USA is so enlightened, why has it had no Jewish, black or female Presidents? Yet France has had three Jewish ones since WWII?
France is a far superior country to the USA and I say that as an Englishman.

Posted by: Monjo at March 30, 2005 at 9:46 am

The trouble with Karol……
I’m not really ignorant, I just like to post in a manner that suggests it !

Posted by: Urbane McMeercat at March 30, 2005 at 10:07 am

Nick, Monjo and Urbane,
It’s interesting to me that you’re so much more horrified at Europe being called anti-Semitic than the constantly presented proof that your continent is heading in that direction. I would find it unacceptable if our athletes made decisions like yours. I would find it unacceptable, and embarassing frankly, if Americans behaved toward anyone the way Europeans behave toward Israel.
Urbane, you admit in Jess’s comment section that being anti-Israel is the new cause celeb. That’s exactly what my criticism is. That it’s cool to hate Israel and, make no mistake about it, Jews, and instead of the rest of the Europeans saying they won’t stand for it, they end up defending the haters.

Posted by: Karol at March 30, 2005 at 11:44 am

The continent is not heading in that direction. what you call anti semitism the rest of us (intelligent ones that is) call criticism of israel. then again i suppose to you ANY criticism of israel IS anti-semitism. sadly not a minority view either.
Americas behaviour vis a vis israel is embarrassing. Funding theft and mistreatement. jenin for example.

Posted by: Nick Saunders at March 30, 2005 at 12:07 pm

Nick, even the biggest retardos on your side aren’t still holding on to the Jenin myth. Think about that. As for your ‘criticism’ of Israel, it’s just so convenient that you save that criticism for the only Democracy in the region and the only country that has even the remotest interest in human rights. Odd, that.

Posted by: Karol at March 30, 2005 at 12:16 pm

France can go suck on my nutz. The only thing France is SUPERIOR to the States at is maybe the production of wine, but that’s even a maybe at this point.
You’re lucky we Gave you cross the ponder’s the internet. Otherwise you still would be putting letters on boats and sending them to eachother.
So civilized, what a joke…don’t you guys still have a Queen ?!?
Why is it OK to be pro-Arab (vis a vis Palestine) but so wrong to be pro-Israel???

Posted by: Shogun at March 30, 2005 at 2:17 pm

Yes we still have a queen. Thanks to the FRENCH you guys dont.
karol. Jenin was recognised by everyone except israel (oh what a surprise) as a warcrime.
Israel as a democracy. well ok if you take the most liberal meaning of democracy. Israel is also the only nuclear power in the region and by the far the most aggressive. (no wonder it gets on so well with america) It treats the people in the occupuied territories like animals and hides behind “you’re just anti-semitic” everytime its called on something.
At the end of the day democracy or not israel has shown time and again it is not interested in a fair peace process because it views the arabs as less than human. where have we seen that before?

Posted by: Nick Saunders at March 30, 2005 at 3:48 pm

People that blow themselves up in crowded markets to kill and hurt as many people as they can are less than human.
I equate the winning of the revolutionary war by Americans to the stupidity of the British army. Wearing BRIGHT Red coats in the woods makes you a very nice target…So stoopid.
What’s your point ?
If it wasn’t for the French we would all be Moslems, but Charles Martel defeated the Moslems at Tours. I guess we’re palying 3 degrees of seperation.
If it wasn’t for King Hadrada England….
That’s the problem with Europeans they are always looking way way way back in the past…
If it wasn’t for the movie Braveheart most people never would’ve heard of Scotland.

Posted by: Shogun at March 30, 2005 at 4:21 pm

The loss of the colonies had little to do with the colour of the British army’s uniform. The govt decided NOT to reinforce the colonies as it was decided the french threat to the Sugar Islands was graver than the loss of America. That said it was the French army and fleet that prevented a future reinforcement and it was to the French that Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown.
The bastards that blow themselves and others up are less than human but they are the minority. Wilfully ignoring that fact does make your argument any less facile.
As for Braveheart lets be a bit more accurate. if it werent for the movie most AMERICANS wouldnt have heard of scotland. Europeans knew of it long before.

Posted by: Nick Saunders at March 30, 2005 at 4:30 pm

Nick, actually, the charges of Jenin were dismissed by nearly everyone except the nuts who despise Israel.
Here:
Not only are most criticisms of Israeli antiterror operations baseless, some are outright fabrications, as in the case of the alleged “massacre” of “thousands” of Palestinian Arab civilians in Jenin in the spring of 2002. This charge was endorsed by the U.N. envoy, Terje Roed-Larsen, without even conducting an investigation. As was subsequently demonstrated, a total of 52 Palestinians died in Jenin, most of them fighters.
And here is a story on the UN admitting the same.

Posted by: Karol at March 30, 2005 at 4:43 pm

As for Braveheart let’s be a bit more accurate. If it werent for the movie, most AMERICANS wouldn’t have heard of Scotland.
I agree wholeheartedly…that is if you’re willing to throw out Sean Connery’s body of work.
“The Rock is a tourist attraction?”

Posted by: Shawn at March 30, 2005 at 5:08 pm

Cool to hate Israel ?
That’s why the French and Irish FAs, and supporters ignored Barthez and the human rights groups in this instance.
Criticism of Israel, like of any other country should be judged according circumstances and what it is about. You constantly seem to suggest that Israel should be immune from all criticism.
Be could if you could deal with the criticism by not shouting anti semitism at every opportunity.

Posted by: Urbane McMeercat at March 31, 2005 at 7:36 am

Man, I can’t believe that Israel could only force a draw with France.

Posted by: Shawn at March 31, 2005 at 10:08 am

First of all I must apologize for my crude post. I just never know what direction these conversations take.
You are correct that France proved a key ally during the American Revolutionary war but you could also argue that they did it for their own self interest (sound familiar??) I’m not sure how we wondered off the topic of Europe’s growing anti-Jewish sentiment but I do so much prefer the historical conversations.
Not to split toothpicks but:
General Cornwallis did not attend the surrender ceremony saying that he was not feeling well. His substitute, General O’Hara, first tried to surrender to the Comte de Rochambeau who directed the British officer to General Washington who in turn directed him to Washington’s subordinate General Lincoln. During the ceremony a British band played the song “The World Turned Upside Down.” Dr. James Thacher served with the Continental Army and published his account of the surrender some years later….
“Thacher, James, M.D., A Military Journal During the American Revolutionary War, from 1775-1783 (1827)”
And to provide my own opinion, France as a superpower has been severely degraded since the British surrender at Yorktown. Thanks almost entirely to our friends from the UK. Obviously if there was no England there would be no U.S.A., but again that really has nothing to do with the fact that France is a hollow shell of her former self.
Europe favours the Palestinians and the Moslems in general because of the large populations of Moslems in Western Europe. Combine that religious demographic aspect with the underdog ideology and that’s probably why its becoming very popular in Europe to dislike or criticize Jews (and Americans it seems but maybe I’m just paranoid). If anyone here has been to London or Paris they woud know first hand.

Posted by: Shogun at March 31, 2005 at 10:29 am

You are crazy, Shawn. That Israel can even get a draw is frickin’ awesome. Israel was a game away from the WC last time and I really hope they make it this year.

Posted by: ugarte at March 31, 2005 at 2:54 pm

I know. That comment was a subtle snipe at Urbane’s comment that criticism of Israel can occur without cries of anti-Semitism.

Posted by: Shawn at March 31, 2005 at 3:01 pm

or rather “can’t”

Posted by: Shawn at March 31, 2005 at 4:23 pm

Shogun.
Personally much prefer historical debate as well. Did not know the part about French refusal to accept or Washington directing us to his subordinate. Thank you.
France did indeed act in 1776 for its own ends. Its aim was to take the Sugar Islands which is why we decided not to go all out against the colonists. Think we’d have lost eventually regardless which considering my family commanded the British land forces and naval forces for a while (admiral Howe and General Sir William Howe) is hard to admit.
Must admit id like to see Israel at the World Cup would be nice to see a new team. Getting a draw with France is a superb result.

Posted by: Nick Saunders at March 31, 2005 at 5:05 pm

Considering most of your ancestor arrived in the US after independence, that would mean most of your ancestors were on the losing side?? That also assumes there was a losing side, it was really a case of some colonialists fighting other colonialists, there was really not many British troops involved. In fact apart from a small corner of the US, most of it was won or purchased from Spain, France, Russia and Mexico after independence.
Anyway I am not sure why this is relevant debate in this thread.
Karol, I don’t say Europe isnt reverting to anti-semitism in some respects. But I also think anti-semitism has been far worse in the US than it has in the EU. I mean the KKK don’t much like Jews and when I was in North Carolina my exes dad was an ex-racist.
All I ever said was France has had Jewish leaders and the US and the UK have not. Though, maybe, the UK will change that on 5 May??? Vote Conservative!
Why EU/UK are more pro-Arab than pro-Israel is a tricky question. I have always been pro-Israel even before I was aware of any Jewish family history.
Oh and you guys have treated American Japanese like shit, you label Arabs are terrorists, you attacked Iraq for no reason. The US calls Venezuela a threat to national defence. You guys refuse trade with Cuba.
Come off it, stop masturbating with the US flag – America treats the WHOLE world as its playtoy and with utter contempt.

Posted by: Monjo at April 1, 2005 at 5:58 am

Considering most of your ancestor arrived in the US after independence, that would mean most of your ancestors were on the losing side??
Not Ol’ Abe B. He ran with that Quaker crowd.
That also assumes there was a losing side, it was really a case of some colonialists fighting other colonialists, there was really not many British troops involved.
How so?

Posted by: Shawn at April 1, 2005 at 10:06 am

I don’t think our army numbered more than 20-30,000 and of those a number were loyalist colonials. That was one of our major problems. We couldnt risk resupplying America at the expense of the Carribean due to the French threat and America was too far away to send a large enough army to. As a result it didnt really matter how many times Washington got the crap kicked outta him you only needed to win big once.

Posted by: Nick Saunders at April 2, 2005 at 3:48 am
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