Alarming News

November 5, 2004

Don’t change. I like winning.

I finally spoke to Dawn Summers. She sounds kinda bitter and says things like ‘that’s it, no more compromising, I’m campaigning for whomever runs against Lieberman in the primary’. So, yeah, they like crazy and they’re sticking to it. Democratic leaders seem to agree. The election wasn’t a repudiation of their positions, they just didn’t explain them carefully enough.

My take on the situation is that ‘crazy’ doesn’t play well in red states. People like Michael Moore caused many normal, blue collar Democrats to vote for Bush. I heard this a lot in Colorado. It’s a case of ‘I want to be on whatever side that guy is not on’. Those conversions stick longer than you think. My parents arrived in America when Carter was president and had the same reaction. They want to be on whatever the other side was. The other side was Republican. Despite the fact that they are not at all conservative, in the entire time they’ve been in America, they haven’t voted Democrat once. Neither have I or my brother. It’s a lasting impression.

The Wall Street Journal’s editorial yesterday made another great point. Democrats aren’t even bothering to try to ‘unite’ the country. They have given up on the south and most of the middle. The WSJ writes ‘it’s true that the Bush campaign wrote off big and mid-sized ‘blue’ states such as California, New York, Maryland and Massachusetts. But at least Republicans own the governoships of all those states. When do the Democrats plan to be seriously competitive again in say, Texas, Florida and Georgia?’

And, that’s the problem with the ‘just get our guy in’ philosophy. Even if you can get your guy into the presidency, the Democrats are unlikely to make any serious inroads on a more local level. Kerry couldn’t be seen on a stage with the Sentorial candidates from Colorado, Oklahoma, Louisiana, South Dakota, even Florida. It’s a bad scene when the presidential candidate from your party can actually hurt the other candidates by showing up. Do Democrats really want to continue having situations like their leader, Daschle, having to have commercials of him hugging Bush, or standing next to Trent Lott? Isn’t that embarrasing? The only candidate of the five mentioned above who lost was Pete Coors. My take on that, based on conversations with tons of people who were voting for Bush and not Coors, is that he wasn’t seen as conservative enough. That was actually the point of this post, I was getting really distressed by all the conservatives who were going to skip voting on the US Senate line. Which of the Democratic Senatorial candidates lost because they weren’t seen as liberal enough? We all know the answer is none.

Look, don’t change, let Hollywood and Michael Moore be the face of your party. Let your candidates all come from the northeast because you’re not winning anywhere else. Let the anger and the bitterness override any conversation on policy. All of that has worked wonders for us Republicans so far. Don’t change a thing, just say your message louder. Look to Europe for advice, Americans love that. And hate us with all you’ve got. We’re not real people, we’re your enemy. ‘Cause one thing Americans really love is negativity and anger. That’s why they chose Howard Dean as their nominee, that’s why all of Daily Kos’s supported candidates won, that’s why George ‘Bush is like Hitler’ Soros’s money was so well spent. Reconsider, if not your positions, then certainly your messengers. This is free advice, and should be obvious to those who are over being angry and pissed off at those ’stupid’ voters.

Posted by Karol at 04:49 PM |
Comments

I agree, Michael Moore was probably counter productive. He was a lot better when his ego was smaller. Roger and Me was a great film. 9/11 did not have enough intellectual heft and the guy makes a fool of himself in public.
But, I just hope you are happy when media censorship orchestrated by the “oh so moral” Christian right increases, as the advancement in gay rights grinds to a screeching halt, the federal courts get packed with Thomas and Scalia types and a woman’s right to choose continues to be eroded (and perhaps eliminated).
Oh, and terrorist attacks in the U.S. increase because of the increasingly polarizing and isolating effect our foreign policy decisions will have over the next four years.
And we have my home state to thank. No wonder I live in NYC.

Posted by: Signor_Ferrari at November 5, 2004 at 5:12 pm

You clearly missed the entire point of my post. Your comment is hysterical and not in a haha way. You sound out of your mind with all you doom predictions. It just doesn’t play well to regular people. You can keep at it, but we’ll keep winning.

Posted by: Karol at November 5, 2004 at 5:17 pm

It’s funny this post came up. I have MyDD.com open in another tab and I’m reading some thoughts on how they can regroup from this loss.
I’m still politically naive, but even after a partial reading, I don’t see any hope for their success in the future. One of the talking points is attacking conservative ideology. If anything, this election showed a rallying around conservatives and their ideology. The left can attack all they want, they’ll only cause the wagons to circle.

Posted by: Shawn at November 5, 2004 at 5:21 pm

My parents arrived in America when Carter was president and had the same reaction. They want to be on whatever the other side was. The other side was Republican. Despite the fact that they are not at all conservative, in the entire time they’ve been in America, they haven’t voted Democrat once. Neither have I or my brother. It’s a lasting impression.
So in other words y’all make up your minds fast and early based on trivialities, and once you’ve calcified your opinion into dogma no fact, no new information, and no common sense will change it.
You’re wrong. Karol…we progressives “get” y’all loud and clear. We just don’t respect you. And why the hell should we? You’ve doomed us all to 4 more years of lies, massive corporate welfare, a crippling deficit and even MORE bloodshed just because you were scared the world would come to an end if a gay couple gets health insurance!

Posted by: Don Myers at November 5, 2004 at 5:46 pm

Well, Reagan was the follow-up and my Russian parents LOVED his ‘evil empire’ talk. Named my brother Ronnie and knew they had picked the right side early on.
And Don, I don’t care if you get/or respect us. You’re the ones losing, despite your hysteria. Don’t wanna change? Don’t. I’m looking forward to it just being the Republican party ala Labour in Britain.

Posted by: Karol at November 5, 2004 at 5:51 pm

So you’re saying that winning is the most important thing, right? The lies, corporate welfare, deficit and bloodshed are all worth it as long as your team wins?
Is that the “moral values” you people keep blathering about?

Posted by: Don Myers at November 5, 2004 at 6:09 pm

Don, the majority of the country doesn’t agree with your hysteria. They don’t think that the boogieman will get them, like you keep telling them he will. He seem really crazed and that insanity does not appeal to the electorate. If you were able to, say, be pro-choice without showing dead women, I think you’d get a lot farther.

Posted by: Karol at November 5, 2004 at 6:26 pm

Oh, poor Karol. What will you do when the dominant Republican party is fully morphed into a thing that bears little if any relation to the conservative ideals you still sometimes claim to believe in? Will you drop the rest of your ideals like a hot potato in the name of Party Loyalty or self-advancement? Or will you perhaps wish you had not so uncritically supported a man whose greatest achievement has been to shore up the power of the Executive Branch behind a veil of secrecy?
Worse, what will you do if and when a president is elected who is even more contrary to your ideology than George W.? What if the Dems get it together by 2008, and President Hillary gets to ignore the press, keep secrets from Congress and the people, and generally act without consequences?

Posted by: Rick Blaine at November 5, 2004 at 6:31 pm

“Look to Europe for advice”
That is what the Democrat Party has become-an European socialist party.
The left’s ranting about the election sounds exactly the same as the European left’s ranting.
The problem with that concept is that EU socialism does not work and Normal American’s know it.

Posted by: Jake at November 5, 2004 at 6:43 pm

Rick, you supported a guy that is against gay marriage, believes life begins at conception, tried to sound hawkish on foreign policy and told everyone how much he loved guns. You had near zero in common with your candidate yet supported him wholeheartedly anyway. This was my first time voting Republican in a presidential election, so stop projecting, you’re the one who is tied beyond all reason to your party.

Posted by: Karol at November 5, 2004 at 6:44 pm

Once again, Karol, you respond to substance with baseless accusation. Which is, in a way, worse than the childish name-calling.
you . . . supported him wholeheartedly
I have made it very clear — on my site and on yours — that I supported Kerry grudgingly because I preferred him to Bush (who, by the way, is against gay marriage, believes life begins at conception, tried to sound hawkish on foreign policy and told everyone how much he loved guns).
you’re the one who is tied beyond all reason to your party.
I have no allegiance to the Democratic party, and do not refer to myself as a Democrat. I think that the Democratic Party is the only political organization more damaging to the ideals of democracy than the Republican Party.

Posted by: Rick Blaine at November 5, 2004 at 7:15 pm

Wow, these progressives really don’t get it. When will they start making a case for their own cause instead of simply vilifying Republicans? The Democrats’ hateful fodder only serves to hasten their party’s demise. Democrats, the time has come for you to raise your own party from its ashes instead of simply trying to raze ours.

Posted by: Jason at November 5, 2004 at 7:29 pm

Karol:
Rick knows that Kerry is a far-left pacifist and that is why he supported him.
Rick and all Democrats knew that Kerry was lying when he sounded like a Reagan Republican. They all knew that Kerry would revert back to being a far-left pacifist as soon as he was elected.

Posted by: Jake at November 5, 2004 at 7:33 pm

Here’s the thing about Daschle hugging Bush is his commercials: he lost! Here’s the thing about Kerry not supporting gay marriage: he lost. “sound bitter?” I am bitter. Losing sucks, but losing with some watered-down version of what you believe sucks oh that much worse. I would have preferred Kucinich lose to Bush in a landslide than Kerry lose by a 3 percent because he didn’t pander quite enough to the evangelicals. I’ve been to the red states too, so I know there are pro-Moore people there too.

Posted by: Dawn Summers at November 5, 2004 at 7:55 pm

Oh boy….free political advice from someone who worked on the Herman Cain and Pete Coors campaigns.
Listen up everyone!!!

Posted by: Rick at November 5, 2004 at 9:28 pm

Dawn, and yet you supported him. Maybe you’re right and most of the country is just dying to get on board with socialized medicine and govt. funded abortions. Shouldn’t the change begin with your support for a candidate who represents that. It’s EITHER you care about your principles (like when I chose to work for people like Cain and Coors, win or lose)OR you care about winning. If the first one leads to the second, BONUS, but that should’t be the purpose for your support. This is why I held out so much hope that you would choose Nader in the end.
So, stick it, Rick, at least I don’t shill for candidates I can’t stand. You get to be both unprincipled and a loser. Go you.

Posted by: Karol at November 5, 2004 at 9:56 pm

Karol, you have principles that happen to be aligned with candidates who have a chance of being elected. (And even those principles are no guarantee of success – the Coors and Cain experience suggests that it hurts to be too principled in certain areas of conservatism too.)
But what does someone do if his or her principles aren’t shared in the same way?
Look, no one as far left as Dawn (no offense meant really) is going to get elected in a national election. Showing support for the one who best represents your beliefs should be applauded, even when the candidate would not otherwise be your personal first choice.
Elections are not about personal first choices anyways, they’re about picking someone who not only shares some or all of your values but also shares those of a majority of the voting population.
(As an aside, given his spending, would Bush have even been your first choice? I suspect not, but he was a good, electable conservative candidate with whom you agreed about most things and to whom you gave your full, enthusiastic support. And the divergence in principles doesn’t make your efforts any less praiseworthy than those spent on Cain/Coors.)

Posted by: Alceste at November 5, 2004 at 10:41 pm

Karol…..it’s your blog, but being so intimately familiar with how it feels when a candidate you’ve supported loses, I would think that you could be a little less bombastic and shrill with your Kerry-bashing.
Hey, your guy won. Great. Celebrate, be happy…fine. But do you really expect Kerry supporters to just sit back while you drag out your “in ‘yo face” lines and name-calling? We’re frustrated, sad, and a little angry if you haven’t noticed. So when you start pitching, expect us to start swinging.
BTW, Guiliani just called. He wants you to do him a big favor and work for the other side in 2008.

Posted by: Rick at November 5, 2004 at 11:56 pm

Hoo-boy did it get ugly in here!
The best way for the Democrats to begin making up ground is by selling liberalism as a worthwhile alternative to the norm, not by insisting that the opposition candidate resembles a monkey or is up there with one of history’s most notorious killers. Harp on those two points long enough and people tune you out. It’s what I did.

Posted by: Shawn at November 6, 2004 at 1:25 am

We’re frustrated, sad, and a little angry if you haven’t noticed.
Good. You should be. And you can keep making comments to me about the losing races I’ve worked on if it makes you feel better (because clearly it does) and I’ll keep telling you what a loser you are and how your candidate and party lost. Dang, I mean we got rid of your Senate minority leader. Sheesh. That’s gotta hurt. 4 more years! In yo face. Wooooooo.
Alceste,
I wouldn’t work for a candidate whose principles I don’t share. In fact, I’ve left campaigns that paid well in the past to go work for next to nothing on ones I believed in. I don’t feel out of the mainstream and I don’t feel candidates I support are either. If being far left is out of the mainstream, then perhaps they should reevaluate their positions. I don’t know. I do know that when candidates are not seen as conservative enough, they lose. I know that was the main factor in the Coors loss, even though he was very conservative. Do conservatives vote more on principles than liberals do?
Also, like I’ve said in the past, I’m a Third Party voter a lot of the time. I really can’t vote for candidates that come nowhere near my own positions. I’d rather not play. So, I really don’t get the voting for someone you have nothing in common with. The only vote I’ve ever cast that way was for Mike Bloomberg but that was because Mark Green’s ‘kill it’ ad bothered me so greatly, being aired a month after 9/11 when the words ‘kill it’ on a dark screen sounded so goulish, that he basically made me vote for Mike. I don’t know, maybe it’s idealism, but if I was Dawn, who I consider one of the few true liberals, I would’ve gone for Nader.

Posted by: Karol at November 6, 2004 at 1:39 am

after listening to broadcasts on air america the day after the election up until yesterday..i feel that it is our job to let the red wave know what is being said…they are not going away..already they are talking about how the election was stolen, stuart smalley stated that bush voters were delusional. and the worst of the bunch some broad named randi rhodes..what this piece of trash says about the president is not even funny..she can’t believe that the record turn out meant bush’s win..afterall she doesn’t believe that america “would vote for evil over good” sickness over health care” negociaton over war” to mention a few. we are all dumb and stupid and morons..they are the smart ones..we can not let our guards down..in fact we must press the fight until we defeat them..all great civilazations have fell, there is no power on earth that can defeat us if we are to fall it will be from within…we have to keep letting all of america know what these luantics are saying and thinking..thats the only way to keep them down

Posted by: robert dacunto at November 6, 2004 at 10:54 am

The only vote I’ve ever cast that way was for Mike Bloomberg but that was because Mark Green’s ‘kill it’ ad bothered me so greatly, being aired a month after 9/11 when the words ‘kill it’ on a dark screen sounded so goulish, that he basically made me vote for Mike.
I see you’re keeping up the family tradition of making important decisions based on trivial and inane snap judgements, and then sticking to them with whatever meagre rhetorical tools you possess.
But you never answered my question—are the official lies, corporate welfare, deficit and bloodshed are all worth it as long as your guy wins?

Posted by: Don Myers at November 6, 2004 at 7:56 pm

I love how Don alternates “we don’t respect you” with “you never answered my question”.
It’s like, “Fuck you, but I want your attention anyway”
Thats pretty much what attitude of the fuckmiddleamerica-heisnotmypresident crowd comes down to.
It really makes people want to listen to you, folks. Makes you look reeeeeally smart. Keep it up.

Posted by: Ivan Lenin at November 6, 2004 at 11:27 pm

I love how you guys never answer the question.

Posted by: Rick Blaine at November 7, 2004 at 1:03 am

Actually Ivan, it’s more like “Fuck you, I want to rub your nose in the giant steaming mess your hypocracy and stupidity has made on the carpet.”

Posted by: Don Myers at November 7, 2004 at 1:04 pm

Don,
I’m sure you would love to be able to rub my nose in all kinds of shit. The problem is, you ain’t got the guts. So, get a pacifier. Nobody here is interested in drama queens.

Posted by: Ivan Lenin at November 8, 2004 at 4:11 pm
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