Oooooh McCain just put the smack down on Michael Moore, who is sitting right there. I take back my earlier snotty comment.
Posted by Karol at 10:23 PM
Yeah, what a brave comment by McCain! For the record, (as if truth means anything to the Grand Old Party these days) Moore never said Iraq was an oasis. He said that we, as a country, were misled into war by a president who lied about the threat. And by the way, if Bush is really after all the bad guys in the world, are we to assume that North Korea is next? Is our new policy of pre-emptive aggression to include every nation with a leader less “right” than W? Very scary times. Very scary.
I think he’s referring to the shot of the little Iraqi girl swinging in the park.
Yeah, all those kiddies flying kites in F911 during Saddam’s legitamte rule (unlike chimpy the fascist) were just normal pictures. Read Naom chomsky, you facsist GOP idiots.
I say we also submit to North Korea and the terrorists, as the US is a bad bad nation.
MICHEAL MOORE RULES!!!!!!!!
How can McCain call Michael Moore disingenuous when:
He is the most elegant man in the Democrat Party
He is the best speaker in the Democrat Party
He is the most emotionally stable person in the Democrat Party
He is the most inspirational person in the Democrat Party
He is the best intellect of the in the Democrat Party
He has the best ethics of any person in the Democrat Party
He is the most honest person in the Democrat Party
He is the best dressed man in the Democrat Party
He is the best looking man in the Democrat Party.
He is has the most sex appeal of any man in the Democrat Party
McCain’s bravery was established long ago, Matt. We don’t need to worry about that now. We don’t need to point out http://denbeste.nu/essays/strategic_overview.shtml the truth about Iraq: we learned it long ago, before we ever went in, and we learned enough to go in, whether there were weapons that Saddam had, or there weren’t (and it was up to Saddam to show which, BTW). We were not misled into war.
Are we going to “assume North Korea is next?” We don’t assume. We debate, discuss, and evaluate. Deliberations are open. So far, the strategy we pursue is a local one: put pressure on North Korea from China, Japan, and South Korea, diplomatically and through other tools. Should we have attacked? If you have another viewpoint, feel free to express it. Kindly have the courtesy to inform yourself a little before you do, though.
The reason that Michael Moore is disliked is because Farenheit 911 is a tissue of lies, and makes no contribution to the discussion. We would like reason, intelligence and thought to be part of our governing process. Moore does not contribute to that, other than by surprising us who think that such ideals are commonly held.
McCain jabs Moore at RNC
Moderate Republican Senator John McCain aims barbed words directly at Michael Moore, who is personally in attendence at the 2004 RNC in New York. Pointed out by Karol at Spot On blog.
you guys and bush scare the shit out of me. i mean bush is a fascsist! Can’t you see that? its about the issues and bush scares me.
An authorian government like Iraq basically lets people do whatever so long as it is not a threat to the government. The girl on the swing still fits… she wasn’t the target of Saddam like say criminals, certain religeous people, people that looked at him funny, or caught him on a bad day.
So, in a sense, at least you knew where you stand.
What is scary about that, however, is how much we changed that… Terrorism was virtually non-existant around the people of Iraq before our invasion. Yes, Saddam was an asshole, needed to go and all that, yes. However, why us? Why then?
We are actually, then, being authoritarian with regards to the rest of the world. We’re the ones that will fuck you up if you look at us funny, now.
That seems decisive, and it seems patriotic, but it makes us (as far as foreign relations goes) just like Iraq, China, and many others we criticize or even see as enemies. Remember, people all over the world are judging us compared to our own Constitution.
We went to war in Iraq because he looked at us funny (said Good! Glad you got attacked!). We were caught on a bad day when a few of our troops committed crimes while on duty. Kerry had the balls to discuss this sort of thing after Vietnam. War is fucking hell, and our brave soldiers fight mental instability every moment.
We have to practice what we preach. Democracy is fairness that speaks of all of these issues. We can’t just go around making war with this so-called “war on terror” … Because if we’re REALLY fighting terror, then we need to battle the fear itself and the fear directed towards us.
That is what we, as people, can do against terrorism, but the current administration (not just Bush) believes that the public should be in panic… er… i mean… in fear… no wait… oh yes “informed.”
All the while, Osama watches the fright of Americans with a language-independent color scale.
americans are such cowards, especially the facsits like mccain and giluani. all they care about is scaring people. meanwhile we are missing real issues, like to to stop all trade with other nations.
vote kerry and stop capitalism!!!!!
Mr. Williams you are wasting your breath. The only thing they know is appeasement.The very thought of conflict is beyond their scope of reason.
dem scaring you is not our intent .The islamofasist are the ones we are aiming for.
Sex and mm in the same sentence,uh now that is one scary scene….
You do realize Kerry is as much of a capitalist as Bush if not more so..right?
Think about that when you order Ketchup on that burger….
Stop all trade with other nations….hmm…What are you talking about? What is wrong with trade? Personally your surrealistic worldview is scaring me, but thank you for sharing your opinion….seriously.
you don’t get the issue, its about protecting jobs, not bombing “sand n*ggers” you stupid fascist. bush scrares the shit out of me, do you want this idiot with his fingure on the button?>??
Th0m your first sentence contradicts itself….
“An authorian government like Iraq basically lets people do whatever so long as it is not a threat to the government. The girl on the swing still fits… she wasn’t the target of Saddam like say criminals, certain religeous people, people that looked at him funny, or caught him on a bad day
So, in a sense, at least you knew where you stand.”
Yeah…in fear of your life every waking moment.
Then you seem to reluctantly admit Saddam was a BAD guy and he had to go, but why us…Ok…good question. I can debate that. Ultimately I feel the reasons listed (UN resolutions, terrorist connections, persuing WMD) were enough of a threat to the US to take action. Why us? Who else did you think were going to do it? Seriously..no one else would do it. Sanctions hadn’t worked for 10 years and the UN was unable to take decisive action because at least two of the permanent security members were in bed with Saddam in exchange for lucrative development contracts. France even told Saddam they would veto any resolution authorizing the use of force which is unfortunate because that may have stopped Saddam from accepting asylum.
John McCain is currently speaking at the RNC Convention and I’m finding it difficult to listen. I have never really cared for John McCain and have always had trouble putting my finger on why but I do know it started when he was running as a pre…
So the Republican audience turns and boos Michael Moore and then 2 minutes later applauds the McCain line about how we all need to love one another. Hypocracy, thy name is Republican.
Show us how to love, tori!!!
first, michael moore does not paint iraq as a beautiful place pre-war. it would be hard to, considering we bombed the hell out of them during the elder bush’s administration, and have sanctioned the hell out of them since. his point is that war brings suffering and has a tremendous human emotional cost on both sides. the difference between our suffering and theirs is that ours is borne by those who choose to bear it – theirs is borne by innocents, women and children, as well as enemy combatants.
before anyone reminds me about 9/11, keep in mind that we have practically owned iraq and OSAMA IS NOT THERE. so just who is it that we’ve been killing? we’re not supposed to have sympathy for our enemies… but we need to define “our enemies” better. the iraqi pointing a gun at me IS my enemy – his wife and children huddled in their home are NOT my enemy unless they, too, threaten me with violence.
consider this recent development when talking of pre-emptive strikes. IRAN HAS NUKES. iran also has watched the USA pre-emptively strike a “threat” halfway around the world (who, coincidentally, no longer has any WMD). they figure if it’s OK for the USA to do it, then no one will bat an eye when they do the same. when iran announced this new “pre-emptive strike” policy, you can take a wild guess which two countries were at the top of their list… us and israel. please tell me when i am supposed to start feeling safe and secure.
bush has played a dangerous game here. i doubt anyone really, in their heart, feels like we are safer than we were before 9/11, the invasion of afghanistan, or the invasion of iraq.
let’s just say, hypothetically, that bush actually HAS made the world “safe” from terrorists. the things that our president has done to the environment are a total disgrace. ok, my children wouldn’t have to worry about a religious zealot flying a plane into a skyscraper, but if they can’t breathe the air without a mask, drink the water without purifying it, or eat a meal without it being irradiated/chemically treated… are they really free? the earth IS our legacy – and bush’s policies allow corporations to destroy our legacy for profit. but that will be an argument for another thread, i’m sure.
bush scares me too. i mean, with bush, i actually have to take care of myself. oh and think for myself. oh and save for my own retirement. and make my own decisions about what i’m willing to give up for education. i don’t want to be an independent citizen, god damn it! that’s not what this country was built for.
it was built to oppress the world. that’s scary.
That line was classic. McCain served up the boo with a side of yah!
Wow Ralphie, you’re not just prolific with the hate America cliches, you’re a gen-u-ine superstar.
The terrible conditions were US’ fault for bithslapping Iraq out of Kuwait – check
Every casualty is an innocent “women or child” even if they are shooting at the hegemonic US troops – check
Iran will now attack US only because we took a preemptive strike. We certainly know they used to be the model of restraint and respectability – check
Even though no attacks have happened we are much less safe – check
And, of course, The Children
People who call Bush a fascist are insulting the memories of people like my grandparents who fought the real fascism. If you brats had experienced anything close to real fascism, I wonder where your indignation would be. “Bush scares me” That’s because you ain’t seen what really is scary.
I’ll tell ya what scares me…what scares me is that every four years, another pandering internationalst Democrat has a shot at the White House. In the 90’s, when nothing was on the line and the Cold War had been won, this somehow seemed benign enough. It doesn’t now. I’m no Clinton hater, but the guy fiddled while extremist minds burned…and he looked to be the rock of gibraltar next to Kerry. Is Hillary waiting in the wings? You betcha…and one gets the feeling there’ll be feelgood sessions left and right with the UN if she ever God forbid got in.
I’m not scared of Bush; I’m terrified of where we’ll be without him, be it four months or four years from now.
Labeling Bush a fascist is so inane, it nearly induces vomiting on my part. This coming from some Dems who seem to not realize that their great FDR was the only President of the 20th Century to launch an interment.
THen there is the notion of Bush as a “fundamentalist” because he has the audacity to proudly bear his faith. So what? I fear the day when we have a completely secular President; I hope it doesn’t happen in my lifetime.
mr. redneck… i think something is wrong with your brain… let’s see…
1. i do NOT hate america. i hate what our current president is doing to america. HUGE difference. please learn to appreciate it.
2. i actually agreed with the first iraq war 100%. it’s this one i don’t like. i’m not saying it’s our “fault” that it happened. but we did kinda drop a lot of bombs over there; i’m sure some of them missed their targets. it’s not like it was a pristine civilization before the whole kuwait business.
3. IN NO WAY did i ever say that EVERY iraqi casualty is an innocent. perhaps you were mystified by my use of “me” in that section. this applies to my countrymen, and the soldiers who are fighting in my name. you shouldn’t kill unarmed “enemies” if it can be helped, and if it can’t, they shouldn’t be dismissed as casually as you seem to want to.
4. the troops are not hegemonic. their leaders are – and the reasons for their being there are as well. i have friends who have been over there, and one who may be going back, even though his four years’ service will end in a few months. i support our troops. i do NOT support the president’s rationale for sending them there. again, please learn to appreciate the difference.
5. we are less safe because WE HAVE NOT CAUGHT THE MASTERMIND BEHIND THE 9/11 ATTACK! they took close to five years of planning before unleashing their strike. they’re not going to treat us like the palestinians treat israel. they want to make spectacular attacks. and as long as bastards like osama are free to plot again, no, sir, we are NOT safe.
6. your comment about “The Children
Michael Moore: Another Scapegoat
I love how quick the “good ole boys” are to strike back at someone who states a true fact that is unfortunately in opposition of the policies of the President. Invading Iraq under the pretext of the War on Terrorism or WMD turned out to be a bunch of bull. Everyone knew it yet there was too much money to be made to forgo the opportunity. And the good ole boys cant refuse an opportunity to secure their fortunes for a few more hundred years. If Saddam was such a threat why didnt we go after him during the Gulf War. Didnt he massacre thousands of people then? Didnt he use WMD that we sold him then? Instead we told the Shiites to revolt against him and we will help them. But we left them high and dry to get massacred and Saddam came out triumphant. The reason these people didnt greet our soldiers with flowers like Bush said they would is because his daddy left them all to get slaughtered. Id like to quote a very wise man who said “The job of the media is to pump you full of fear and get you to consume” Media is influenced by goverment and guess who profits from your consumption. In conclusion all i have to say is dont slam the guy who reveals your bull$hit for what it is instead slam yourself for buying into it.
As I look into the see of white GOP faces and know they have white KKK hoods at home i can only think thus: The US is fucking police state without free health care and i am supposed to give a shit avbout 3000 rich people who got smoked by people who had a legitimate cause against US imperialism? the same country that destroys democracy and crushes poor people?
bo fucking hoo about 9-11. here is me shedding a single tear.
bush has go to go. by any means necessary. amd that is my patriotic, democratic opinion.
“The US is fucking police state without free health care and i am supposed to give a shit avbout 3000 rich people who got smoked by people who had a legitimate cause against US imperialism? ”
How dare you, sir, bring this inarticulate drivel to what has so far been an intelligent, if heated, discussion. Your post should be deleted, and for that matter, so should you ASSHOLE.
Rubin, off the subject but do you live in Florida?
Ok: Let’s all learn how to spell Fascist. Its F.A.S.C.I.S.T. Not facsist, not faxist etc. If you all seem to hate Bush so much, learn at least how to properly label him.
Isn’t it wonderful though that you can call your very own prez a fascist, a monkey, a dictator, or a bad bad man?
Imagine what would happen in North Korea, in Iran, in Afghanistan (pre-Taleban) in Iraq (pre-Saddam) or in many African States like Gabon, if citizens started to insult their good ol’ dictator. Yeah… That might not be cool.
Whatever Bush is, fascist dictator would perhaps be a little excessive, as it would imply that this country would allow him to be one. Keep arguing, keep fighting, keep exercising your democratic rights that grant you freedom of discussion. You are a blessed nation. Don’t ever forget that.