Posted by Karol at 10:08 AM
I suppose that, in your opinion, I am one of those “idiot leftist pseudo-intellectuals” who hate America.
I am a progressive and not very smart. (Well, I DID quit smoking long ago, so I’m not that dumb). I am totally un-intellectual, and I am very passionately American. I have traveled as widely as many people (once visitng the old communist East Germany), and there is nowhere I want to live more than in the United States. It is my country.
I do recognize its many faults — maybe we let too many compulsively order-loving immigrants from the former Soviet Union in occasionally! — and I thank god that I am free to criticize them.
Hail Columbia, Gem of the Ocean!
Gee Michael, awfully defensive aren’t we? I said that they know who they are.
I like the sound of these words together:
WAR LOVING BRAINWASHED RIGHT-WING FASCIST TOOL
Also: I think that most of the so-called “America Haters” are wrongly classified. A much better classicication might be: Lovers of America, Haters of the Current Dictatorial Administration That Has Temporarily Hijacked the Country Again!
Thanks for the healthy debate-fostering weblog Karol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fee, why don’t you read the article before you spew? Most of it concerns anti-American sentiment before the Bush administration. Does your knee hurt from all that jerking?
I found your blog via The Politburo Diktat. I thought this quote was especially interesting when I browsed through the article very quickly (I will print out in a bit and read it more carefully later on).
“Europeans who have not been in the U.S. . . . have the strongest opinions
i’m sorry, i actually wasn’t yet making a comment on the article. only your introduction of such and the topic of “america haters.” i’m going to read the article on the long ride home to paradise!
Go, Martin, you happy little corner of Sweden! We’re happy to let in anyone from Scandanavia. We want lots of Finns, too. They make great cell phones (i.e., Nokia).
But it’s those Russians that scare me. They love totalitarian regimes. How do we know that they actually gave up communism when they arrived? Did anyone bother to check? More background checks, people. God bless America!
Nice comment Martin. I couldn’t agree more.
What I like most in the “most amazing piece” is the straight faced quote from “Iraq foreign minister” (appointed, it seems, by the occupation authorities) trashing the UN. Some member of Quissling cabinet reprimanding the British for war-mongering, the closest thing coming to mind…
Does who appointed him make him less Iraqi or the UN less culpable?
It does not. However, the same logic would make opinions of, say, Mike Moore (does his whatever political affiliation make him less of an American or the US less culpable?) represent those of people of the US as a whole.
To say that an Iraqi official depending – in all respects, including his personal safety – on the occupational forces, represents the prevailing opinion in his country is clearly a wide stretch. Presented as a sole rebuttal to the viewpoint that US forces are not generally welcome in Iraq, this is non sequitur.
WAR LOVING BRAINWASHED RIGHT-WING FASCIST TOOL
fee, time to take your Paxil
Rev, why don’t you check out some Iraqi blogs for their opinions on the UN. Salam Pax is hardly a fan of the US and you should read what he wrote about the UN.
“…facist regimes are leftist by nature.”
Oh, Radical, so wrong, so wrong.
All totalitarian regimes, whether facist or communist, are fundamentally ultraconservative. This was true in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. It is true in the People’s Republic of China today. These regimes abhor change, economic progress, and the ability to transmit free thought. You know so little about history or political thought.
Michael, actually all three regimes you site could be described as socialist which, last time I checked, was squarely on the left. Also, it’s the left that ‘abhor change, economic progress, and the ability to transmit free thought’, look at the people they’ve supported and the ideas they espouse.
Karol, how can you say Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and the People’s Republic were or are “leftist” regimes and keep a straight face? Have you read nothing of 20th century history and political science?
They were totalitarian (meaning they were a political system in which a citizen is totally subject to state authority in all aspects of day-to-day life) and therefore by their nature ultraconservative. Statist political systems are inherently conservative in their essence, even where they advocate state ownership of property.
I don’t think you understand your left-right political spectrum. Look into it.
Regarding Iraqis’ position on UN: whatever it may be (and it is easy to project what a decade-long policy of economic sanctions imposed under UN aegis would do), this was not the essence of the argument. My humble point was that the guy trying to educate the world about the sophistication of American journalism, chose to cite a puppet minister as the herald of people of Iraq. Even Pravda, which in 1980 was proudly citing international support of Soviet invasion to Afghanistan coming from Ambassadors of Bulgaria and Ukraina. did better…
As for the left-right divide: to me, and to all real lefties, *left* are the people concernced with the well-being of poor, not of “economy”. Poor like you, so that you, and everybody else, could get education without mortgaging your future…
It’s less about the sanctions and more about the havoc that the UN let Saddam cause for all those years with hardly a peep.
Communist governments are widely acknowledged to be “leftist”. Fascist governments are equally acknowledged to be “far right”. The above is not an opinion. It is a fact and not subject to dispute. Political thought for the last 100 years is not subject to revision by a posting on a message board.
The problem there Steve is that Nazism/Fascism were neither extreme right nor extreme left. They shared things with both areas. On some things Fascists were very socialistic yet on others such as maintenance of the system.
Steve your point is SUBJECT to dispute everyday by political scientists. The notion of a simple extreme left to extreme right line with Fascism far right and Ingsoc (newly added) far left. When you get down to the meat of the various ideologies you find the spectrum is anything like a line. http://www.baen.com/chapters/axes.htm and http://members.tripod.com/~dunrobin/spectrum.htm
additionally look up a copy of Roger Griffins book on Fascism. go to google.co.uk or yahoo.co.uk and type in either “Fascism” or “Roger Griffin”
as to the article there were some very pertinent points in it. I happen to hold many of the European (being British) pseudo intellectual views of america partly based on my experience of americans. The point that many europeans look to america and in many aspects rely on it cannot really be argued.
For the record Arafat is not a “self proclaimed victim” The Palestinians have a genuine case and those who claim the contrary may find a HISTORY book and half the resolutions of the security council more useful than the bible.
by the way the sentence “The point that many europeans look to america and in many aspects rely on it cannot really be argued.” should be aruged with.
Michael, Rev, Nick–Good for you! And thank you.
Progressives and other “Lefties,” are on the side of the poor: that’s what defines them. Conservatives are on the side of the rich and powerful (and those who are also part of the “religious right” are hyocrites; check the Sermon on the Mount).
And yes, Nick, the Palestinians do ineed have a case. In addition to a history book and a Bible, I have my memory (I’m rather old).
Oh, and I think Michael Moore is a patriot. He obviously likes Americans a lot.
Whether you want to call them left or right, facists and national socialists were anti-capitalist and anti-American. That’s a clear fact if you read their original texts from the 1920-40s! Their economic policy was corporatism; big companies working under government control in a centralized planned economy. This is what created totalitarianism and it has nothing in common with the freedom-loving capitalist “conservative” right – and much with the statist socialist left…