Posted by Karol at 01:29 AM
Ack, I hate to be put in the position of being the one to defend Canada, but it looks like these will be non-binding courts, similar to (as the article points out) current Orthodox Jewish courts. And it looks like it’s not a new policy by Canada, just Muslims deciding to take advantage of an existing law.
In practice, of course, who knows what kind of craziness will emerge.
I saw that. Except that under Jewish or Christian law, I don’t think there are many judgements in which someone is killed. Sharia law is something else entirely.
Karol, you may want to look at the books of Moses and some of the prophets a bit closer. I say this as someone who does take my Christianity seriously. There are a lot of offenses which demand the death penalty.
Let’s use the ole King James and see what we uncover.
18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Hmm, having dated a wiccan once, I may not disagree with that one.
Little does Eli Manning know what he is getting himself into ! No, not the NY fans or Tom Coughlin being a hardass. Oh no. This is much worse.
1 And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them.
2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Yep. You work on the holy day and it’s NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA HEY HEY HEY GOODBYE.
Then there’s the infamous…..
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.
6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
8 And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.
9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11 And the man that lieth with his father’s wife hath uncovered his father’s nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister’s nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother’s sister, nor of thy father’s sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.
20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle’s wife, he hath uncovered his uncle’s nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.
21 And if a man shall take his brother’s wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother’s nakedness; they shall be childless.
22 Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
24 But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.
25 Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.
26 And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine.
27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
That’s a lot of death. Homosexuals. Adulterers. Incest. Wizards. People who like animals in a carnal way….
And bad kids must die.
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
And false prophets must be killed by their own parents (I for one would love to see Irving Kristol execute Bill)
3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Then there are other strange parts of biblical law.
1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Ouch ! Ten generations without God for illegitimate kids. That is harsh. And men without testicles can’t go to church ?
And God really frowns upon the disabled.
16 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
All this leads to the best line in the Bible:
1 Kings 16
11 And it came to pass, when he began to reign, as soon as he sat on his throne, that he slew all the house of Baasha: he left him not one that pisseth against a wall, neither of his kinsfolks, nor of his friends.
Yes, the Bible means men but couldn’t they come up with a better way of saying that he killed all the men of Baasha ?
This is why, while I may be tempted to moan that we need more religion in the public square, we do not need biblical law as a lot of the people in the Constiution Party suggest. And we should not let any type of religious law take precedence over the laws of this Republic.
Von Bek, if your wife cheated on you, today in 2004, and you decided to work it out and seek religious counseling, is there any chance that your religious leader would say ’smite her’. Now, imagine this scenario if you’re both Muslim.
Of course not. But then my faith is based on love (despite the statements I quote above) and I can not say that for many strands of Islam.
All laws of any minority religious affiliation (be it Islamic, Mormon, Mennonite, Orthodox Jewish, fundamentalist biblical) have no legal basis in this Republic as opposed to, say, religious based laws accepted by most of us in the Western tradition (such as the Ten Commandments that George W. Bush and the SCOTUS removed from the supreme court of Alabama).
Okay, I intended to comment just to say that every time I see “Canada” I think “Candace” and am confused, no matter how many times I see this page.
But now I just have to say that Von Bek, if you think that Christianity advocates full implementation of the laws of Deuteronomy, there are other parts of the Bible you should read. Are those behaviors still sins to God? Yes. Is death/blood sacrifice the only way to atone for them? Yes, spiritual law is universal in that way. But isn’t it true that in Christianity, somewhere along the line, someone else died that death so that we didn’t have to purify our society in the ways set out in those books?
OH! Oh. I get it now.
Furthermore, when was the last time the Constitution Party had a serious candidate campaigning on the platform of reinstituting Deteronomy? Green Party “humans should go extinct” deep ecologists have had more political success than that.
If you’re going to argue about political possibility, you have to look at political reality, not just how you would fundamentalistically look at the text and attempt to implement it. There’s a big gap there that is largely due to modernisation, so much so that even in Iran, things are beginning to change. The difference is that in Sharia, people, particularly women, have very little power, and the fundamentalist interpretation still guides legal interpretation. This is not only structurally, due to the role of the cleric, but socially, at least in the male-dominated Iranian society.
That’s not to say that in legal systems which have emerged from the Judeo-Christian system of ethics, we have acheived some kind of perfection. It is to say that there’s no reason to take a step backwards, just like there’s no reason to start killing homosexuals.
“OH! Oh. I get it now.”
Well played, my dear girl. Touche!
You say “if you think that Christianity advocates full implementation of the laws of Deuteronomy, there are other parts of the Bible you should read.” With the coming of Christ, I would argue on a personal level, that the old law is obsolete. I do not think that all Christians would agree on that. We have only been seriously divided in the West oh a good 500 years. Some have literal views on the old law, some do not.
I was playing devil’s advocate and reminding Karol that the Bible (including parts from the Book of Moses) do call for the death penalty in a number of situations. Still, there are people who do take direct interpertation of the Bible and call for our laws to be implemented. I susepct we are in agreement that Sharia (and I would argue the faith it steps from) is a major threat and should not be welcomed on our shores.